theSun: You wear several hats. Journalist, editor, actor, director, playwright. Which of these roles is the most fulfilling for you?
Kee: I would say that all of them are fulfilling. But, if you were to ask whether it’s a toss-up between the arts and journalism, that seems like a rhetorical question-lah. I mean, what contest would there be between the arts and journalism?
See, when I write my plays, I’m a free man. I can write what needs to be written. Of course, at the end of the day, I may not get the staging permit for it-lah. But, as a journalist, the constraints are certainly there. Everybody knows about that. Well, journalism for me has been fulfilling but it also has been very frustrating.
Can you talk about some of the frustrations?
I’ve been a journalist now for 28 years. I started with The National Echo. You know, it’s ironic that when I was 16, I told my mother I wanted nothing better than to be a reporter! I also told her I didn’t care if they paid me peanuts. But then later on, I got interested in law, I think from watching those courtroom dramas on TV at the time, but we couldn’t afford for me to go to law school.
In fact, I wasn’t thinking of going to university because of the expense. So, after Form 6, I took a job at MAS, and it lasted for two days [chuckles]. I’m from Penang, and the job was at Subang Airport. It was as a traffic clerk and it was quite boring work-lah. I suppose I didn’t really give it a chance-lah [chuckles]. Then I asked the airport manager if I could be transferred to another department, and he said, "No."
And then I met somebody in KL who said to me, "If you have the chance to go to university, you should." So, I thought, well, maybe-lah, I’d try for USM since it was in my hometown. So, when the results came out, I did quite alright, and I applied and got in to do Humanities.
Originally, I had the intention of majoring in mass communications. But, after the first year — you know, you don’t major until your second year — I found I couldn’t bring myself to major in mass comm [laughs]. Just not my cup of tea anymore, and I had become enamoured of the theatre after doing a lot of work at the Experimental Theatre. I wrote my own plays and directed them, and that became my passion.
So, that was your first exposure to theatre?
Er, in a concentrated sense-lah, ya.
So, since I couldn’t bring myself to major in mass comm, I thought maybe I’d major in performing arts. And again, ironically, I decided not to do that because I couldn’t stand doing the acting class [laughs].
Ironically, now, if you were to ask me what I would like to do most, if I had the choice of doing something without having to worry about making a living, I would tell you I would like to be a full-time actor.
There’ve been quite a lot of ironic turns in my life [grins].
Eventually, I majored in literature.
But to come back to your question about journalism, I think it’s been fulfilling for me because I’ve managed to do quite a few things that I feel strongly about. I’ve given my full commitment to being a journalist. And I’ve given my full commitment above all to doing my job as a professional.
And, sometimes it can be very hard-lah when you try to be a professional journalist.
Because, you try to do it as you think journalism should be done, and it’s sometimes not possible.
You do your job according to journalistic values, journalistic ethics, but that doesn’t seem to be the norm, especially nowadays when journalism has metamorphosed into something else because of the new technologies that are coming in and also because of the competitive nature of the media business now.
I mean, there was a time when the editorial department was king, you know. And the advertising department was wary of encroaching on that territory. We kept advertising at bay. What was important was the editorial matter and the integrity of the paper. But nowadays, you find that there is such a close collusion between advertising and editorial.
I subscribe to the notion that journalism is not all about business. It’s about telling it as it is. I suppose my views are pretty old-fashioned [chuckles]. And these ideals are probably not operable-lah in today’s world of journalism.
I believe in the old notion that newspapers are meant to be watchdogs of society — critical, engaged, speaking out without fear or favour. When I was entertainment editor about 20 years ago, in my own way-lah, you know, I found ways to discuss issues of the day through culture and entertainment. I even ran a couple of articles that were critical of [Tun Dr] Mahathir [Mohamad]. And one was when he appeared on a programme called Hal-Ehwal Semasa. Of course, it didn’t go down well. Nowadays, there seems to be a tradition of not ever criticising the Prime Minister of the day, whoever he may be and whatever policy he may unveil.
I also remember, when I was a sub-editor and I ran a letter from a reader asking for multi-racial representation in an entertainment programme on TV. The next day, when I opened the paper, the letter had been yanked out [looks incredulous]. So, being young and idealistic, I marched to the chief editor’s office and asked him, "What’s the meaning of this? Why was it taken out?" And I wasn’t even informed about it. And he gave me a two-hour lecture. He started by telling me, "If that letter had appeared in print, there would have been blood in the streets." I mean, this is rubbish-lah, of course. I mean, he was just exaggerating-lah. I’m not foolish enough to take that kind of thing [chuckles]. This was more than 20 years ago.
Once in the 1990s, I wrote a piece on the local literary scene in which I called for the repeal of the ISA [Internal Security Act] and a few other oppressive measures. Automatically, I got a memo-lah from my superior.
Over another disagreeable thing I did, he called me to his office, he said to me, "You don’t have to work here, you know." I said, "How can you say that?" I mean, that was like a threat to me, you know [chuckles]. I don’t think any superior should say that. So, he said, "Well, you think I’m a lousy editor. You think I’m a government ball-carrier." [laughs] It had come to that kind of thinking. So, I told him, "This is uncalled for."
After that, the order came for my pages to be henceforth closely scrutinised. And when everybody got one month’s extra bonus, I got RM100. So, I wrote a cheque and returned the money.
It hasn’t been easy for me in journalism. I used to get numerous memos from my bosses for doing what I did, which included obeying my conscience. But, I have to make it very clear here that it’s never been my intention to rock the boat, to create trouble, or what have you. I’ve always maintained that I do my job as a journalist. As a professional. And I do it like I think it should be done.
And, sometimes it’s a very difficult dilemma that I face. I mean, it’s a dilemma of doing your work as a journalist and obeying your employer’s orders, right? What do you do in a situation like that? Do you go against your own principles or do you continue to pursue them and take the wrath of your superiors? Journalism is not like many other professions, it comes with social responsibility.
During the [Datuk Seri] Anwar [Ibrahim] crisis ... Now, I have to say categorically that I’m not an Anwar supporter but there were things done during that time that I felt were not just and I couldn’t agree with them. So, in my own little way, what I did was ... I had a section called Lit-Quotes in my pages. Actually, they should carry quotes from literature-lah. But, I put in a lot of quotes on democracy, and oppression and authoritarianism and what not. And somebody told me later on that these quotes were actually photocopied by people and circulated during that time [chuckles]. Because, as you know, that was a time when a lot of people were very cagey and these quotes expressed what they themselves felt. But, eventually, the chief editor caught on to it. And he told me to stop it.
I think if we can’t be a critical media, we should at least be a questioning media. We need to question.
And [sounding pained], I really feel sad for the new breed of reporter because they are getting a different idea of what journalism is. It’s pleasing your boss, it’s pleasing advertisers, it’s pleasing the marketing department, it’s pleasing the advertising department, it’s not upsetting the government! That’s not what journalism is about!
I also feel that a little disrespect for authority is always a healthy thing. Because authority is not always right. And if it is wrong, it should be pointed out.
It’s like people say, "Oh, if you go against the government, you are not loyal to your country. You are a traitor." No! Loving your country is different from loving your government [chuckles]. You know, it’s just the government of the day. But people fail to draw that line. And that’s the sad thing, especially here, you know. It doesn’t mean, if you criticise the government or you go against it because it did something which you thought was wrong that you therefore do not love your country. That’s ridiculous.
You talk a lot about the problems you have faced. Is it any different where you are now, is it any better? If it is not any better in journalism today, why are you still in it? Because it pays the bills?
I’m doing creative things where I am now. I edit a page that deals purely with the English language. I’m also in charge of the Photo Section. As the Photo Section is mainly a service provider, my main concern is to upgrade the lot of the photographers, improve efficiency and the quality of their work. I’ve had to reinvent myself, which can be rejuvenating in the twilight of my career! I still fight — I fight for the photographers. And for better English!
When I’m given a job to do, I do it with commitment and integrity. I can say this at the risk of sounding like a brag because I don’t bullshit. In the newsroom, I often speak straight from the shoulder. I think my current bosses know that and I hope they appreciate it. They know I’m not a yes-man or a ball-carrier.
Sadly, ours is a culture of ampu-bodek. If you’re good at that, chances are you’ll do well. And that’s what partly keeps us from progressing at a faster rate. Because the capable ones who don’t ampu-bodek get left behind, and those who are good at ampu-bodek may not be good at doing the real job.
These are your frustrations in journalism. What about in theatre? What kind of frustrations have you experienced?
I was rehearsing a play for about six weeks as an actor in a one-man play called The Coffin is Too Big for the Hole, [Kuo] Pao-kun’s play, and we were denied the permit on the afternoon of opening night. We lost money because of that. People who came to the opening night show had to be turned away.
There was another play I was directing, and I also had been rehearsing for about six weeks. It was called Madame Mao’s Memories. We also didn’t get the permit for that. In both cases, no reasons were given. Apparently, the authorities are not compelled to give reasons.
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