How is it that you’re writing about Singapore?
It’s not about Singapore! The play is about Malaysia! It’s about modern-day Malaysia.
It is based on the episodes in the Sejarah Melayu, but I take a lot of liberties with it, just as I did with Mr Birch. You know, taking a historical episode and then doing all kinds of things with it. So, it’s the same thing that I’m doing with this play. A lot of cheeky things, you know, but very much reflecting and questioning what is going on today.
Just as Birch took a historical episode and actually is talking about today, rather than about history, so it is with The Fall of Singapura.
So, what are some of the issues that you are questioning through this Fall of Singapura?
Erm, I’m not sure I should tell you [laughs]. Well, one of the things is the celebration of mediocrity-lah. I think we Malaysians are famous for celebrating mediocrity. I mean, I cannot understand the Mawi [Akademi Fantasia 3 winner Asmawi Ani] phenomenon, you know. I didn’t watch Akademi Fantasia but there was such a big hoo-ha over him winning. And he’s now so big, he’s suddenly sold 150,000 copies of his album. And then, I heard him sing on TV. And he can’t sing [looks and sound incredulous]! My whole family heard him, and they were, like, shocked, you know. And they are people with musical ears because they are musically trained.
How did this guy who can’t sing become such a big phenomenon? What does it tell me? That it’s another celebration of mediocrity?
It’s not just that TV has this knack of generating hype, it’s also the people who voted for him. There were other people who could sing much better than him. How come people didn’t vote for them? [laughs]
I think it says so much about us. We don’t have such a high regard for meritocracy, you know. Sometimes, I think we are too much influenced by our sentimentality-lah, sentiments for our kampung, the state we come from, religion, kinship, what have you. With that kind of mindset, how can we think about ourselves as would-be First Worlders?
Another issue in the play is our confusion about ourselves and the contradictions in our wanting to be progressive and yet adhering to our conservatism.
When is this play going to be completed?
I hope soon-lah [chuckles].
Are you going to self-publish? Or is it going to go to a publisher?
No, I think the best way is to have it staged first, so you can see better if there are any dramatic flaws. Then, you can revise until you’re quite satisfied that it should be published.
Are you thinking of directing it?
No.
Recently, your play The Big Purge was read [at the Soho Theatre, London] at the Typhoon Festival [an East Asian writing festival]. What is the play about? Why hasn’t it been performed locally?
Well, that play was actually triggered by Operation Lallang [in 1987] and I dedicated it to the 100 over people who were detained under the ISA [Internal Security Act] as a result of Operation Lallang. It’s a play about how the powers that be can manipulate events to their own political advantage, to frighten the people, to create a culture of fear.
I have two dimensions there. I have the wayang kulit [shadow play] world of the politicians, the powers that be. And the human dimension of the characters of the land, people who are affected by the policies and so on.
I also talked a lot about emigration, how people find it difficult to cope in that society and the only way out for them is to run away. It also deals a lot with racial tensions, racial relations.
Was this written right after 1987?
Yes, immediately after the thing [Operation Lallang] broke out, I started writing. I staged it in Essex [University, England] when I was doing my Master’s [in Literature (Drama) in 1988]. But, it hasn’t been done here. I did offer it to one theatre group but I think they were quite, er… either they saw no merit in it or they felt that it was too risky-lah.
Do you hope that someday the play will be staged in Malaysia?
Yes! Certainly, sure.
What was the reception like in London?
Oh, very good! I was overwhelmed, actually! I didn’t expect it to be so good and there was a discussion of the play afterwards and in the audience were people from London itself. It was a very mixed audience. There were some ex-Malaysians, some current Malaysians. But regardless of which nationality they belonged to, they could identify with the play. There were a lot of interesting questions floated and after that, the organisers said they were very pleased with it.
Do you think there is enough support for English creative writers and English-language theatre in Malaysia?
Aiyoh, I’ve spoken so much about that on other occasions. Do we have to go into that?
Of course not-lah [sounding tired]. We don’t have the infrastructure for it. And for a long time, you know, English creative writing had to really work in isolation. There was no recognition for it, and it wasn’t easy to get published, for obvious reasons. Because there wasn’t a large enough market. There still isn’t a large market for Malaysian English writing.
In the 1970s and 1980s, some of us felt really guilty continuing to write in the colonial language. It was an uneasy time for us. Even now, we could not dream of getting writing residencies in institutions of learning or writing grants.
And of course, you know, because [pause] there is — I don’t know if it still exists — there used to be this doctrine that national literature was to be literature written in Malay, and literature written in other languages were known as ”sectional” or ”communal” literature.
I mean, that’s also another demeaning thing-lah. If you write in your own mother tongue, you’re only considered to be ”sectional”, you know [laughs cynically]. It’s the same with the National Culture Policy which still remains to this day. It says that national culture must be based on Malay culture and Nusantara culture! Can you imagine it? Nusantara. That means they’re including Indonesia. They’re looking so far afield. And only incorporating ’suitable elements’ from immigrant cultures.
What are these ”suitable elements”? I mean, it’s really terrible, you know. If people say, ”Okay-lah, I take what is suitable from you.” How does that make you feel? And who are they to decide what is suitable and what is not? What do they mean by ”suitable”? You mean, there are things in my culture that are not suitable?
These are things that I cannot reconcile with. I don’t know if they will change in my lifetime or not.
Do you think there’s enough appreciation for English literature in Malaysia?
I don’t think a lot of people are very much into literature and again, because of the way our society is going, towards consumerism, towards science and technology. As I said earlier, the regard for intellectual development is not quite there. They have reintroduced English literature into the classroom at the lower forms. It’s been going on for Malay literature. But for English, it’s only just been reintroduced. A lot of teachers don’t even know how to teach it. The students are quite lost! So, it will take a lot of time-lah for us to have any kind of interest or grounding in literature to appreciate it more deeply.
Why do you think it’s important for society to have an appreciation of English literature?
Whether it’s English literature or any kind of literature, it’s important to have an appreciation of it because literature deals with life, it deals with a lot of moral issues, it deals with how people live, how they behave in certain situations.
And although literary works may be fictive, or fictional, there is a certain truth to them. And, as we read them, we empathise with the characters. We go through the journey that they go through and we hopefully, understand something about life from their experience.
You’ve talked about wanting to write a novel some day. What would it be about, and have you actually started writing it?
Don’t want to talk about that-lah.
Why?
I’ll probably write it in my next lifetime [laughs].
Who are the people who have inspired you in your writing and acting?
Very few people, actually. I’m not conscious of being influenced by anybody except when I was an undergraduate, I was very much into Samuel Beckett and Harold Pinter. I was very much taken by these playwrights after watching productions like Waiting for Godot and The Birthday Party.
They opened up an intriguing world for me. And I studied them more and more, and I was very much influenced by them. And I wrote absurdist plays in the kind of mould they were writing in.
And I suppose at the time, it was also quite appropriate for me to do so because I could empathise with their notions of a world gone topsy-turvy, in which language has lost its real meaning, and people lead existentialist lives in a meaningless world. That kind of thing-lah. Maybe I could identify with that because I wasn’t getting any girlfriends [laughs loudly].
I understand that your children bear names from the three major races in the country. What are their names? Your 15-year-old daughter?
Soraya Sunitra Kee Xiang Yin.
And your 14-year-old son?
Jebat Arjuna Kee Jia Liang. I like the name Jebat. It’s a strong masculine name. And Jebat was a true friend, unlike Hang Tuah who was blindly obedient. Blind obedience I think, is stupid-lah. We have to be alert and questioning.
Was it a conscious decision to name your children this way?
Yes, it was certainly a conscious decision. It was a contribution to the development of Bangsa Malaysia. I find that [pause], to this day there’s just a lot of lip service being paid to it well, let me say this. I hope that it will eventually come about-lah.
Do they have a hard time at school?
[Chuckles] Yes. In the beginning, they used to be quite fed-up. Because people would ask them, ”What race are you, ah? Are you Malay, or what?”
But now I think they are coming to terms with it. And I think they realise the significance of their names. And they are beginning to appreciate it.
My daughter, in fact, wrote an essay about her name last year. And, at the end of it, she mentioned that she was getting to be proud of it. And she also mentioned that she was proud of her country, and she supposed that having a Malaysian name would enhance that love for the country. And she also said that she got her love for the country from her father [chuckles] who often tells her that loving her country is not about waving flags! I was very proud of her.
I don’t believe in all that hoopla of flying flags during Merdeka month. It’s just a show. What’s inside you is what really matters.
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